• Science behind the scenes by steffi suhr

    This is about people in science and those behind it: in science support, logistics, management, and publishing. Mostly marine and polar science-related, but now also with regular updates on the latest free electron laser technology!

    • I am knot dumb.

      Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 04:42 UTC

      Really, I am.

      As I mentioned, my husband is currently setting up a cruise on the icebreaker Nathaniel B. Palmer, off to chase icebergs (part III of the project). Since I’ve been quite involved with that project in my former incarnation, I am very much with him and the science party in spirit – and this brings back all kinds of things that I hadn’t thought about so much since converting to landlubber.

      I feel great on a ship. I love being out there. On my very first research cruise I thought ‘YES, this is it’. Of course, this helps when you decide to do oceanography. But here’s the thing: I am actually not a natural at the technical stuff. Obviously, I’ve had to learn how to do things, that’s just part of doing field work and getting your samples. Small things are ok, banging things with hammers and tightening bolts with wrenches spanners, dis- and reassembling sampling mechanims: check.

      But what about one of the most basic, basic things you need to know when you’re on a ship? Well, knot so much. I am dumb with knots. I forget them! Every time I’ve been on a ship, I’ve had to re-learn the most basic knots. It’s kind of crucial to know how to properly tie stuff down on a ship.. gravity does strange (like flying drawers in your cabin) or dangerous (like big equipment sliding across the deck) things when stuff isn’t secured properly.

      It’s the same for rock climbing..

      The whole thing makes me feel like this. Is there a special part of the brain that stores information on ‘how to tie knots’? I’d love to hear about it.

      Last updated: Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 04:42 UTC

      • Comments

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 04:57 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          cruise on the icebreaker Nathaniel B. Palmer

          I read that as the heartbreaker which… probably comes from listening to too much Bob Dylan as I pack. Yeah.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 05:05 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Well, it’s been a heart breaker for some.. you’re not too far off!
          (I hope the packing is going well – feeling nostalgic?)

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 05:48 UTC
          Nathaniel Marshall said:

          Just don’t ask Grant to fix your pump either.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 05:48 UTC
          Nathaniel Marshall said:

          And after a few years as a Sea Scout I think I can remember precisely 3 knots.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 06:45 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          Steffi, not really no. Looking forward to when it’ll be done. Nathaniel—is that a fnar?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 07:03 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          I can remember precisely 3 knots
          Granny knot, single and double hitch? ;)

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 07:23 UTC
          Heather Etchevers said:

          I’m unfortunately knot in any position to offer you advice, Steffi.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 07:45 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          Can we tie up this thread, now?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 08:19 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          No, I think we can continue letting the story unravel.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 09:08 UTC
          Stephen Curry said:

          Steffi – can I recommend all 20 books of Patrick O’Brian’s Aubrey-Maturin series. You won’t be any better at tying knots but you’ll sure as hell believe that you are.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 09:46 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Thanks Stephen! Looks like I might have to check those out to prevent going into at-sea withdrawal… ironically, I read books and novels featuring shipwrecks while I was at sea on a few occasions.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 11:30 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          tightening bolts with wrenches spanners

          I have it on good authority that there are both wrenches and spanners in the UK; the wrenches being the adjustable kind. Had I known that when I lived in London, I could have duly chastised those who mocked me in the lab, as I was changing out the CO2 tanks. ;-)

          Steffi, I hope you didn’t read The Perfect Storm while you were at sea.

          [shivers]

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 11:47 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Nope, I read that one on land. And unfortunately saw the movie as well.. talk about a great book being made into a cheesy movie!!

          Speaking of storms: have you read Isaac’s storm (about the Galveston flood)? Very recommendable!

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 12:10 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          Isaac’s Storm is a fantastic book, especially terrifying if you know the geography and city of Galveston Island well. I thought about that book a lot, during Hurricane Ike last year.

          I didn’t see The Perfect Storm movie, fortunately.

          I tend to read books about mountain climbing accidents, right before I go hiking and climbing (the non-technical variety) with friends. Fortunately, your incident-free odds while climbing in the Cascades or Rockies are much, much better than those on Everest.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 13:15 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Oh yes, climbing accidents, Touching the Void being the classic of course.. but have you read this guy’s story?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 13:43 UTC
          Brian Derby said:

          I have a friend who fell off a track in Yosemite near Half Dome and broke his ankle when he landed on a ledge half-way down. After blowing whistles for a day to attract attention he realised he was in trouble. The next day he set fire to some debris on the ledge and a park helicopter arrived. It determined the fire was not going to spread, ignored my friend and flew away. On day three he had exhausted his water supplies and used KNOTS to tie together as many clothes, straps and other objects into a makeshift rope and managed to get qown from the cliff to the forest floor. After several hours hobbling and crawling he arrived at a road looking like the old man of the woods. Did any car stop to pick him up? Of course not. In the end he imitated a dead body (not difficult in his state) and only then did anyone stop to see what was the matter and take him to hospital.

          Moral of the story: You can be stupid in the woods as long as you know your knots.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 14:20 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Brilliant story, thank you Brian!

          You can be stupid in the woods as long as you know your knots.
          No hope for me then..

          Did any car stop to pick him up?
          …hang on, he:
          used KNOTS to tie together as many clothes, straps and other objects into a makeshift rope.
          He was naked. Probably scared people.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 15:14 UTC
          Heather Etchevers said:

          I was wondering if that was for real or a story to scare Steffi into learning her knots. Brian’s friend could write a book about it – sounds like a great screenplay, too!

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 16:21 UTC
          Richard Wintle said:

          Brian’s story makes me say ‘yikes’, but fortunately didn’t turn out like Aron Ralston’s (I thought of this immediately too, Steffi).

          And, like Nathaniel, I was a (regular, not sea) scout, and, like Nathaniel, I can also remember about three knots. A square knot, I can tie reliably. Round turn, two half hitches – no problem there. Bowline – gets a bit dicey. Sheepshank is trial and error. Everything else is completely useless.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 17:49 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          So what’s your strategy, Richard? Mine – on occasion – has been to look like I know what I’m doing when being watched.. and when the watchful pair(s) of eyes passed, furtively glancing around for another knot to copy. Of course, if you take too long, you’ll draw attention… and I’ve never done this with anything really big and important. Thankfully, there are ratchet straps for that stuff.

          (Note: that last link is NOT an advertisement – there’s just a good picture on the site)

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 18:02 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          My knots always turn out all raggedy and awful.

          Me, talented? I’m a frayed knot.

          (Sorry, had to be done).

          I did learn a few for a sailing course I took a few years ago, but I don’t think I’d remember them now. There was some scheme to help you remember a bow htch (is that the right name?) – something to do with a rabbit going around a tree and then into a hole.

          The Shipping News is a great book with some sailing and stormy bits.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 18:09 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          We probably use variations of maritime knots to tie lead ropes for horse halters, but I don’t know the proper names. The knots must be “quick release”, and must also be intricate enough to foil horses that untie the lead ropes. I had a horse who would work and work to untie himself, and then would untie other horses as well, and I finally found a multiple loop knot that he couldn’t undo. But now my mare has figured out this particular looped knot, so I’ll have to find a new one.

          There are also elaborate plaiting and knotting patterns to tie up horse tails for polo. Impatient types will do the plaiting, and then wrap the tail with electrical tape – I just learned the traditional knots instead, because I can’t be arsed to remember to buy electrical tape and scissors.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 18:16 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Oooh, back on books! Anyone read Ahab’s Wife by Sena Jeter Naslund? I really, really recommend it. Some Nantucket whaling history, too.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 18:37 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          My last comment was directed at Cath, of course – Kristi, our comments crossed. See, even your horses can figure out knots.. {sighs}

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 19:16 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          Steffi, I hated Moby Dick with a passion (made myself finish it), is there any hope at all that I might like Ahab’s Wife?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 19:22 UTC
          Richard Wintle said:

          Steffi – I have no strategy. I can operate a canoe reasonably competently. Anything with more ropes than a single painter is baffling to me.

          On the topic of books, Arthur Ransome wrote a whole pack of them that are about sailing. Kids’ books to be sure, and early-twentieth-century politically incorrect in many ways, but fun to read. And set in Norfolk, so you can pretend Henry’s one of the characters if you like (I suggest Captain Flint/Jim Turner).

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 19:32 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          My knot-tying on kayak expeditions is similarly simple – I do about 6 reef knots on top of each other.

          The Swallows and Amazons series is a true classic. I especially loved the original, and We didn’t mean to go to sea. And Voyage of the Dawn Treader was my favourite of the Narnia books – can’t wait for the movie!

          Sadly, my one attempt at learning to sail resulted in many unplanned swims in Vancouver harbour. There was barely any wind that week, which apparently makes things harder.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 19:37 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Cath – completely different thing, Ahab’s Wife. You could say like male and female.. ;) I think you’d like it.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 19:38 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          Ah, the Amazon link said it was based on Moby Dick. If she spends the whole book complaining about what an idiot Ahab is, then I might like it.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 04 Mar 2009 - 19:48 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          {laughs}

          Check out this summary. (I have no idea why the text is repeated three times – maybe it’s an incantation?)

        • Date:
          Thursday, 05 Mar 2009 - 01:43 UTC
          Richard Wintle said:

          Ah. And in fact, only The Big Six and Coot Club were set in Norfolk. Most of the rest were in the Lake District, with forays to Scotland, China and the West Indies. I think that’s all of them.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 05 Mar 2009 - 15:07 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          Looks interesting, Steffi.

          The thing with classics like Moby Dick is that, regardless of how tedious and over rated they are (see also Don Quixote), there are so many references to them in other books and movies etc. that it’s important to at least understand the themes.

          It’s a less extreme example of what Andrew Motion was saying recently about students not understanding a lot of literature because they’d never studied the Bible. I remember my English teacher pointing out the allegories in books like Lord of the Flies – Biblical references are such important themes in Western literature, and it is important to be able to at least recognise them.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 05 Mar 2009 - 15:26 UTC
          Cristian Bodo said:

          The thing with Don Quixote is that is supposed to be a parody of a literary genre that no one ever reads anymore, and it’s hard to enjoy a parody without being familiar with its target.
          Imagine someone with no knowledge whatsoever about what the New Testament is about (if you can manage to find such a person indeed) trying to make sense of Life of Brian

        • Date:
          Thursday, 05 Mar 2009 - 15:32 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          See, I didn’t know that, which explains a lot…

        • Date:
          Thursday, 05 Mar 2009 - 19:58 UTC
          steffi suhr said:

          Oooh, Cath and Cristian, now you just reminded me of a book I loathed when I was about 18 (which is roughly when it came out): The Perfume by Patrick Suesskind, which promptly got to be an international bestseller. I hated it for what you just mentioned: the whole book (I felt passionately in a young adult, very indignant way) existed only as a showcase for metaphors and bits and snippets of cultural, religious and literary references. Plus the author got sloppy at the end and made mistakes: in the beginning he says that the main character (good grief, I remember the name) Grenouille ‘would never see the ocean’, only to climb over a sand dune somewhere in the Bretagne and see it towards the end.

          The moral is (I think): if you’re a writer, don’t recycle too much other material in your novels, and don’t try too hard to look smart by including references to everything you’ve ever read. And as a reader, sometimes it’s more fun to be ignorant.. Maybe I should re-read the book.


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