• Scott's miscellanies by Scott Keir

    I think this is going to be a fairly varied collection of posts on stuff to do with art, science, culture, geekery and science communication. But we'll see, eh? And, just to be clear, what I type here is my own opinion, not my employers'.

    • The Periodic Table of Typefaces

      Wednesday, 18 Mar 2009 - 23:55 UTC

      The Periodic Table of Typefaces has been created by graphic design agency Squidspot to list “100 of the most popular, influential and notorious typefaces today.”

      It’s a delightful combination of two of my favourite things: chemistry and typography. The designer, Cam, derived the top 100 typefaces from a variety of “top nn” lists, and then ranked and grouped them by families and classes. So what should be the atomic number is not in the same order as an actual periodic table, and the format is ever-so-slightly different.

      But it’s pleasing to try to make connections between the typefaces and the elements…

      For instance, Helvetica’s super-abudance in the universe twins nicely with hydrogen. Iridium’s stability and softness echoes that of Palatino. And boron’s presence in glass makes it pair nicely with Gill Sans’ clarity.

      Other connections are perhaps more tentative. Is DIN’s teutonic, clean structure and systematic nature similar to calcium? Can argon’s inertness really be linked to the flashy, 1990s wunderkind Eurostile? Is neon Avant Garde (or vice versa)?

      In any case, it’s an interesting conceit, and, if nothing else, shows the cultural acceptance and ubiquity of the format and style of Mendeleev’s Periodic Table.

      Last updated: Wednesday, 18 Mar 2009 - 23:55 UTC

      • Comments

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 00:13 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          I think I’m in love with that! Gill Sans is one of my favorite typefaces, perhaps because it’s closely related to the Johnston typeface used for the London Underground signage.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 02:29 UTC
          Sabbi Lall said:

          That’s really cool..you probably know that Helvetica (which I really love) turned 50 last year? I agree it’s designation as Hydrogen is fitting! My browser’s playing up so I can’t see, but I’m hoping Courier is in a bland and unreactive place….

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 02:40 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          Sarbjit, have you seen the documentary about Helvetica?

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 03:25 UTC
          Sabbi Lall said:

          I love that documentary- the recollections of the guys that were there, the rebelliousness of the young turk designers trying to break away from the cleancut-ness of the big H….I think at the New York MoMA last year they had some of the archetype printing blocks for Helvetica.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 08:13 UTC
          Scott Keir said:

          Courier’s around where Hassium or Bohrium would be: manufactured, technological, artificial.

          And yes, I celebrated Helvetica’s birthday, and love that documentary. I think you can guess which badge I wear:

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 10:11 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          Try as I might, I cannot find Comic Sans. I suspect it’s less of an elementary form than an horrific miscegenation of Courier, Cooper and the back end of a tractor. In my opinion, anyone using Comic Sans outside the confines of a parent-toddler-group newsletter should be subject to serious sanctions.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 10:28 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          I was impressed with the demonstration of the ubiquity of Helvetica in the documentary; I loved seeing all the diverse examples. I’m fond of the DIN typeface as well – it reminds me of traveling in Germany.

          In my opinion, anyone using Comic Sans outside the confines of a parent-toddler-group newsletter should be subject to serious sanctions

          I’ll leave judging people by the typefaces they choose to my intellectual superiors.

          Of which there are many, I’m certain.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 10:32 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          ouch

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 13:21 UTC
          Dorothy Clyde said:

          In my opinion, anyone using Comic Sans outside the confines of a parent-
          toddler-group newsletter should be subject to serious sanctions

          It fascinates me how something as simple as a typeface can invoke such strong opinions/emotions. There is definitely a level of ‘intellectual snobbery’ out there regarding typeface/font – with poor Comic Sans seemingly the most hated of all. I’ve never understood it (I find CS perfectly legible – more so than many other fonts! Is it simply not sufficiently sober-looking for conveying serious scientific ideas?) – but would be very interested in finding out why CS has been attributed such a lowly status in the world of typefaces (at least in science)! Are there other typefaces that elicit the same level of disdain in the scientific community?

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 13:37 UTC
          Scott Keir said:

          Comic Sans is hated outside the scientific community too. At issue, is its ubiquity – and Helvetica has its critics because of the same reason. (The Helvetica film covers some of this.)

          However, Comic Sans hatred goes beyond that. Typographers will say it has many design imperfecttions. Comic Sans’ designer, Vince Connaire, will say that too – he put it together in two days.

          I think Comic Sans’ hatred is so high because it is not just overused, but overused inappropriately. Comic Sans was designed quickly for a long-gone comic-book style Microsoft product, with a talking dog. The dog was talking in Times New Roman. Comic Sans was ideal for dog talk. And its ideal for similar faux-handwriting – for toddler newsletters and the like.

          But when, say, you start sending out job rejection letters in Comic Sans, or warnings of death, that’s when Comic Sans use turns bad.

          I like Comic Sans, in moderation. What would that be, in chemical element terms? Sodium? Explosive, and too mcuh can lead to heart attacks?

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 14:04 UTC
          Frank Norman said:

          I’ve observed that people use Comic Sans when they want to try and come across as fun and cool, particularly when writing for an audience of young people. To me that’s like putting on a special voice to talk to kids. It’s not the voice or font that makes you cool or approachable, it’s what you say and the way you say it.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 14:42 UTC
          Dorothy Clyde said:

          Thanks Scott – you are a mine of interesting information! I’m really enjoying this post… I’ve never really given too much thought to the humble typeface! I like the idea of CS as sodium: essential in small quantities (maybe a bit of a stretch!?) – even enhancing in the right combination/quantity? Ha!

          Frank, I totally agree that it’s what you say and the way you say it that’s important. I suppose that’s in part why I’ve been a bit bemused by the inclination of some individuals to seemingly judge content/intellectual ability on the basis of font choice!

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 15:18 UTC
          Eva Amsen said:

          I’ve been at lectures where the topic and speaker and level all seemed really promising, but as soon as I saw that the entire thing was in Comic Sans I just lost all respect.

          I also used to spend a lot of time with graphic designers, so my Comic Sans hate might be a little more excessive than most.

          I have fonts I love, too: Trebuchet (though I’m now tiring of it a bit), Palatino Linotype, Gill Sans, Century Gothic, Century Schoolbook, and, of course, Helvetica =)

          My CV is currently in Baskerville Old Face, I think (It was in Palatino Linotype previously). It would be fun to send out a bunch of job applications to similar type jobs at different companies, with the same CV but one batch in Comic Sans and one batch in something more serious, and see which set gets the most callbacks. It’s hard to control for different companies, though, so the sample set needs to be huge. </ geek >

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 15:28 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          @Frank: you’ve hit the nail on the head. Comic Sans is the typographic equivalent of what Rabbi Lionel Blue called the ’let’s all be bunnies’ voice.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 18:16 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          I’ve occasionally used Comic Sans in the context of lecture powerpoints, because it projects well in a large lecture hall (seating for 400), and it shows up clearly in the “two slides per page” printed handouts and Blackboard versions that we are required to provide for the students. Gill Sans and several other fonts also work very well in these contexts, but for several years, Comic Sans was the only font that fit the above criteria, AND wasn’t resized, cut off, or reformatted when lecture files were transferred from PC to Mac to pdf version to various projection systems on campus to whatever etc. etc. In my experience, several other fonts were mucked up in various ways during the transfers; only Comic Sans maintained dimensions, identity, and formatting.

          But apparently I don’t know my own mind with regard to Comic Sans, and the real reason I chose it for some of my lectures years ago was to appear “cool and approachable” (and, by extension, less intelligent or worthy of respect). In a few ways, this discussion about typeface choices reminds me of how I was told that if I used my preferred version of my first name (Kristi), I would never be taken seriously, in the context of academia; therefore I should learn to accept the unisex Kris, the full version Kristine, the latinized version Kristina, or whatever bastardized version of my name people choose to impose upon me.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 18:33 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          Gaah, I hate it when people decide what version of your own name you should use. The vast majority of people call me Cathy when they first meet me, and sometimes repeatedly after that, even when I politely (at first) correct them. I don’t know where they’re pulling that y from, but I know what they can do with it.

          (I don’t hate the name Cathy, I just hate it on me. It doesn’t suit me. Plus, having lived with a Catherine, Cathy and Kate one year (the Kate left the following year and the Cathy the year after that), then another Cathy, then a Katie, and finally a Cat, I like using a less common version. Catherine is OK – that’s what my parents still call me, and I sometimes use it on the phone as it’s less likely to be misheard, but do NOT call me Cathy).

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 18:45 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          I like using a less common version

          Lots of people call me Kris, and I really don’t mind that version at all. However, it has been a problem, particularly in the context of a co-ed soccer team for which I played in grad school. There are a lot of K/Christines, Kristins, Christophers, and Christians (not the religious variety, though of course that’s the origin of all the versions) in my generation. At one point there were 5 players named “Ch/Kris” on the team. Oy!

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 18:48 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          Ha! Yes, that happens to me a lot too. (And almost all Catherines are Catherine Anns, like me).

          In my first student flat, things were complicated by the fact that my parents call me Catherine, Catherine’s parents call her Cathy, and Cathy’s parents call her Cath. Seriously. If someone ever called asking for Cath(y)/erine, we always had to request a surname. Luckily, Kate was always just Kate.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 19 Mar 2009 - 23:25 UTC
          Scott Keir said:

          My CV is currently in Baskerville Old Face, I think (It was in Palatino Linotype previously). It would be fun to send out a bunch of job applications to similar type jobs at different companies, with the same CV but one batch in Comic Sans and one batch in something more serious, and see which set gets the most callbacks. It’s hard to control for different companies, though, so the sample set needs to be huge. </ geek >

          Oh, that’s a fantastic idea! I would love to do that.

          Officina Sans, Palatino and Frutiger are some of my favourite typefaces. But I like many. And I pop along to St Bride to hang around with lovely typographers and the like.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 08:26 UTC
          Frank Norman said:

          Kristi – that’s interesting evidence in favour of Comic Sans. I’m sure you don’t need any assistance from a font to come over as cool and approachable! But I have heard some other people say they use it because they think the kids will think it’s more fun than other standard fonts.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 09:57 UTC
          Dorothy Clyde said:

          Kristi: I like Comic Sans in Powerpoint presentations (and have no doubt used it on numerous occasions) for reasons similar to those you’ve stated. However, the number of negative comments I’ve heard over the past 5 years or so regarding it’s use is steadily increasing. Eva does not seem to be the only person that will negatively judge a presentation based solely on the use of Comic Sans. And it’s something that really bothers me! How and when did it become acceptable to entirely dismiss someone based on their choice of typeface? I’m mystified!

          Frank: I think it would be interesting to find out if kids actually do think Comic Sans is more ‘fun’? Now who could I approach for funding for that experiment….?

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 10:29 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          @ Frank – In the early days of the developing Powerpoint hegemony, I experimented with the available typefaces while teaching a graduate course. The only typefaces about which I received complaints in that context were the serif ones, such as Bookman, Times New Roman, Garamond, and Palatino. Several of those look beautiful on a black-and-white printed page, but in Powerpoint projection were difficult to read, or had repeated weird formatting issues. The formatting problems became a major driving force behind typeface choice in lectures (for me, at least), because both Macs and Dell PCs are used in the lecture halls on our campus, and I use my own MacBook for small group presentations. Now that the typeface formatting is less of a problem between platforms, I tend to use Gill Sans. I would use Johnston Underground, if it were readily available.

          @ Dorothy – I’ve never had any indication from students that they negatively judge a lecture because I’ve used Comic Sans. That’s not to say that none of them has ever judged thusly – just that I’ve never had any such feedback. I’m really not sure about the extent to which typefaces register with most students, unless the typeface is difficult to read when projected or printed. People who do respond negatively to Comic Sans, for example, might be projecting or adopting the opinions of others, but since I’m not a mind-reader, I can’t know whether that’s actually the reason.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 12:30 UTC
          Dorothy Clyde said:

          Kristi: in my experience it’s not (undergraduate) students who notice and comment on typeface – but rather research scientists from PhD-level upwards.

          Scott: I’m sorry that I seem to have encouraged this thread to go a little ‘off topic’! I think I’m done now – we should get back to comparing typefaces to elements…..!

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 12:59 UTC
          Heather Etchevers said:

          When I write the notes that ostensibly come from the fairies to my daughter, I use Gigi (just so she can find this comment someday).

          A colleague I esteem highly uses CS all the time in her presentations. When I would take some of her slides as templates in my own talks, I would change it all to Arial. (Which is more or less synonymous with Helvetica for me). Readable, sans serif. I still don’t like CS much, but it is pretty readable for teaching, as Kristi has found. Now if I take her slides, I leave the typeface alone. It’s still much preferable to trying to use anything with a serif in a presentation.

          I seem to share identical font tastes with Eva but I nearly always use Arial for presentations and Times New Roman for everything else professional, unless I want to add a touch of fantasy.

          When I was a kid, I took graphic arts for a couple of years, and I learned to typeset. I’ve liked typefaces ever since.

          Garamond Classic is about where tin is; that sounds good. Scott, you might enjoy this intermittent blog.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 13:19 UTC
          Scott Keir said:

          Scott: I’m sorry that I seem to have encouraged this thread to go a little ‘off topic’! I think I’m done now – we should get back to comparing typefaces to elements…..!

          If this blog post stayed on topic I would be resolutely offended! Isn’t that part of the joy of blogs, the conversation and the conversing?

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 13:26 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          It could simply be a matter of association. I wrote in CS for years when I was a regular columnist for various local newsletters for the National Childbirth Trust . I wrote a column called ’Dad’s Life’ which was very like my blog in tone. But now I associate CS very specifically with early years, and this is reinforced when I see it used in kindergartens. It could be that it’s simplicity and clarity predisposed it to such uses, but the association remains, so much so that I’d be quite offenses were I to see an official memo or – say – a death announcement in CS. In the office I used to use Book Antiqua until I was bullied persuaded that Times New Roman was the office standard, along with Arial. I do use Matura Script Capitals – but then only in Mallorn, the journal of the Tolkien Society.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 13:47 UTC
          Scott Keir said:

          When I was a kid, I took graphic arts for a couple of years, and I learned to typeset. I’ve liked typefaces ever since.

          Yay! I think knowing a little about typesetting, typefaces and a bit of graphic design nous would do many of us the power of good. It’s part of being able to communicate clearly.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 14:46 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          I think knowing a little about typesetting, typefaces and a bit of graphic design nous would do many of us the power of good

          Absolutely! Along those lines, I can highly recommend the one-day course that Edward Tufte offers in the US (and in Canada, I think). Registration costs a fair amount (several hundred dollars), but you get his beautiful design books as part of the package (and he’ll sign them during the lunch break). I refer to Tufte’s books repeatedly when I’m preparing lectures or graphs for teaching and research.

          When I took the Tufte course (in Houston), there seemed to be mostly business and IT types in the class. Very few, if any, science research and instruction types – which is a shame, if it continues to be true. After taking the course, I redesigned all the graphs and tables for my research presentations and for subsequent publications, and I’ve received a lot of positive feedback.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 15:01 UTC
          Heather Etchevers said:

          Kristi, could you be induced to share any examples on SlideShare?

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 15:31 UTC
          Richard Wintle said:

          I share a fondness for Book Antiqua (good on you, Henry – Times New Roman is ugly) but my CV is currently in Verdana, which I’m hot and cold about. Sometimes I like it, sometimes not, and I can’t decide if the boldface version is dramatically um, er, dramatic, or just plain clunky.

          It used to be in Goudy Old Style, which along with Garamond and Palatino (and Book Antiqua) make up a nice suite of serifed and rounded fonts.

          I think knowing a little about typesetting, typefaces and a bit of graphic design

          I’ll agree with this too, having just put together a two-page fact sheet that is, in a word, fugly. I wish I had more layout and design skills, although I doubt I could talk anyone into paying even a few hundred $ to train me up.

        • Date:
          Friday, 20 Mar 2009 - 16:00 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          Heather, I could probably put together a few slides on “Tufte-zation” of the graphs and tables in the 2007 Mutation Research paper from my lab. I have to give an informal seminar next week on more recent research, but those are unpublished data, and I’d prefer not to put the graphs on SlideShare. But I should be able to point out some of the information design considerations, using the original files for the published graphs.

        • Date:
          Saturday, 21 Mar 2009 - 01:17 UTC
          Scott Keir said:

          I’m a big fan of Tufte, and am slightly jealous that you have met him :)

        • Date:
          Sunday, 22 Mar 2009 - 20:42 UTC
          Heather Etchevers said:

          Kristi – that would be fantastic, when you can get around to it. We’ll keep an eye out for a link here sometime?

        • Date:
          Sunday, 22 Mar 2009 - 21:39 UTC
          Scott Keir said:

          For those interested in Edward Tufte, his Wired article Powerpoint is Evil and Graphic Design Principles are good places to start.

          The key message I take away from Tufte on Powerpoint is that you should think about what you are wanting to communicate first, and the method of presentation second – which is just good communication practice really. But Powerpoint’s default bulletpoints are so very alluring, it can be hard to think outside the box (or rather, the list).


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