• The Scientist by Richard Grant

    Raising being quoted out of context to an art form: 'awesome, but not always right'. Drinks well with scientists.

    • On mal-informed yet influential twonkishness

      Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 03:49 UTC

      Or, Get ORFFF mah LAHND!

      In my role as Emissary Extraordinaire to the Colonies, I often find myself defending the Monarchy to the more republican shackle-draggers I encounter. It does, I claim (in the context of a Constitutional Monarchy), counter the excesses of a supreme Executive elected in a mobocracy, provide employment and entertainment to the hoi polloi, engenders tradition and a sense of belonging, and gives a chance for every red-blooded Brit to scoff at wimpy and whiny journos stuck for copy.

      But before we all launch into five chorusses of Rule Britannia, I’m going to have to backup a bit.

      With a nod to Pamela, I want to know how the hell it is that a certain Charlie is able to spout utter tripe in the press about genetically-modified crops, and not immediately precipitate rioting in the streets, general strikes and a march on the Palace by thousands of angry scientists. Someone who has absolutely no idea of how the real world works thinks that genetic modification is a Bad Thing, and through the accident of birth has an entire nation’s attention over it.

      But rather than whine about it, drink my gin tea and move on, I’m going to suggest that we leverage this meretricious codswallop to our own advantage. Remember what I said about the public fear of science? Exactly.

      Prince Charles says GM “will be guaranteed to cause the biggest disaster environmentally of all time”.

      I say “Remember the dinosaurs? Exactly. Give us more funding or it’s curtains for all of you. Bwah hah hah. Oh, by the way I have a beautiful daughter locked up in a lab in the tallest tower of a foreboding castle, and a servant called Igor.”

      Well, it makes as much sense to me as does the Monarchy, right now.

      Last updated: Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 03:49 UTC

      • Comments

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 04:11 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          I suppose a knighthood’s out of the question, then?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 04:15 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          Looks like it, Henry.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 04:22 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          However, Sir Richard, take heart. In the very title of the interview in the Telegraph HRH says ‘if that is the future, count me out’. Do I hear the hooves of Fortuna galloping over the horizon as she prepares to take another hostage?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 08:31 UTC
          Bob O'Hara said:

          No doubt to the only bit of Carmina burana anyone knows.

          I thought Charlie was mainly listened to for the comedy value. His heart’s in the right place, a pity about the brain.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 09:15 UTC
          Jennifer Rohn said:

          At the risk of causing a pile-up, he also makes some pretty damned fine sausages.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 09:20 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          Well, that’s easy then – he makes the sausages, and I’ll look after several thousand acres of prime real estate.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 09:45 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          I doubt that he makes the sausages personally. I suspect he has help.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 10:06 UTC
          Mike Fowler said:

          Come and join us rebellious Scots! The big fish leading the scottish parliament stated in the past that he didn’t care where people originally came from, they could be Scottish as long as they paid tax in Scotland. Then we can all guffaw over Hadrian’s wall at the nonsense spewing forth from the Kings and Queens of England.
          Sounds ideal, utopian even, ’cept I live in Finland.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 10:14 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          cough

          Hands up my kilt in the air everyone who wants me to wear that for the blogging conference.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 10:28 UTC
          Mike Fowler said:

          (Checks carefully above his head before tentatively raising a hand)

          Having read the Beeb article now, Old Charlie is only doing his honest best to protect his organic business interests.
          It’s a classic tactic, repeated often by competitively excluded groups: “Our competitor is poisoning your babies with their devilishly successful tactics! For the love of Jebus, THINK OF YOUR BABIES and (ahem) buy my product”

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 10:29 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          Consider my hand raised aloft at a jaunty angle normal, yea even perpendicular, to the substrate, squire. But you have to have the sporran, and those interesting socks.

          And in a similar spirit, hands up all those who’d like me to inflict sport my crocs at the same event.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 10:55 UTC
          Bob O'Hara said:

          Mike – if you want, we can give you the Duke of Edinburgh back.

          Consider my hand raised too. For both the kilt and the crocs.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 11:36 UTC
          Graham Steel said:

          Thanks very much for the offer Bob but we don’t negotiate – and certainly not in relation to the Duke.

          Oh, you’ve twisted my melon man arm(s), one hand raised for the crocs and one for the kilt. As to the interesting socks maybe Brian could supply Richard with one of his toothpicks sabre’s as a Sgian Dhub

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 11:44 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          I have my own sgian dhub, thankyouverymuch.

          I’m considering that wearing the kilt to the Event might be a little much, and asking for trouble, but to the Betjeman on Friday night is a distinct possibility. I’ll await the female vote.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 11:46 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          Crocs?

          On the other hand, I think there’s an entrepreneurial opportunity for producing science- and medical-themed Jibbitz.

          Science Jibbitz = DNA, ribosomes, mouse blastocysts, Drosophila, Darwin imagery….

          Medical Jibbitz = brains, various organs, stethoscopes, femurs, golf clubs….

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 11:54 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          Yes, crocs. My kids want me to put Jibbitz in mine but I think the holes are too big.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 12:04 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          You need a silmaril Jibbitz, Henry; or perhaps Nenya, or the One Ring.

          On topic (sorry for the tangent): Do you suppose that HRH consumes only organic, non-GMO, local, in-season produce? And what about the royal polo ponies?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 12:06 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          I honestly don’t think, Kristi, that HRH consumes the royal polo ponies: organic or inorganic.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 12:13 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          I’m going to be sad all day now, thinking about the possibility that anyone might actually consume ponies, polo or otherwise. :-(

          Surely amongst all the properties of the royal family, there must be an organic hay farm. And of course there are grazing opportunities to the sides of the polo field, whenever HRH parts company unexpectedly with the aforementioned ponies.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 12:19 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          Fantastic. I now have a mental image of HRH on his hands and knees eating organically-mown hay. Henry? One for the eco-mow?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 12:26 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          Only if His Kilted RH fancies getting his bare knees soiled by the various kinds of egesta that dot the lawn at the Maison des Girrafes. In any case, the guinea-pigs might complain. As for the likely reaction of Beelzebun Demon Bunny of DOOM (a pronounced republican), I hesitate to claim responsibility for the consequences.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 12:33 UTC
          Graham Steel said:

          Oh no, not The Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 12:48 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          No, not that. Beelzebun Demon Bunny of DOOM is mild-mannered and polite, as a rule, but she’s the very devil when roused.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 13:23 UTC
          Anna Kushnir said:

          The BBC article doesn’t show Prince Charles as presenting the least bit of scientific support for his ridiculous claims. I do find it amazing that a man with such an enormous audience and prominent post (can I call it a post?) can go around making such heavily opinion-based statements. GM crops are not evolution. They are not open to interpretation – not in my mind, at least. They are cold, hard science. Why did Prince Charles choose to use GM crops as an emotional prodding rod? More importantly though, are people listening? As far as I am aware, public acceptance of GM foods in the UK was nonexistent at best of times. How about now? Have scientists made any counter-arguments? Pamela? Is Pamela Ronald in the house?

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 13:30 UTC
          Mike Fowler said:

          Anna, you can try and call it a post (in fact, you did), but post is either something shoved through your letter box, or a position that you are elected to. As Bunny (hugging) Prince Charlie wasn’t elected, I think that means we have to start shoving. Or perhaps he was simply demonstrating that he was as thick as a short one.
          It’s great that someone in a prominent public position speaks up about environmental issues, but tragic that they spout such absolute drivel.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 13:44 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          What surprises me – as indeed surpsised Richard – is the deafening silence from the scientific community. You’d have thought that someone prominent in the PUS camp, such as Lord Winston, or He Who Must Not Be Named, of Baroness Whatsername, might have said something fairly robust. But, hey, it’s August, and people are elsewhere, I guess.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 14:34 UTC
          Frank Norman said:

          Silly season. Textbook case I think.

          The BBC news item seems quite fair, though, with a number of critical voices raised against HRH and in favour of scientific evidence.

          If you have a strong stomach, read the Daily Telegraph report in particular the comments from readers.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 15:37 UTC
          Ian Brooks said:

          Speaking of polo ponies, my grandad invented the polo horseshoe y’know while working as a farrier in the army (served from 1914-1936 I think). He neglected to patent it however, so the Brooks’ Millions are elsewhere still. He was also invited to work at the Royal Mews upon leaving the army but my gran made him decline.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 16:10 UTC
          Kristi Vogel said:

          Ian: Your grandad invented the divot-ripping, high inside rim polo horseshoe? Cool!
          A good farrier is worth his weight in gold, IMHO. Not a wussypants way to make a living, either.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 20:30 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          Talking of the holding of unelected positions, Richard please remember that you are only Emissary Extraordinaire to the Colonies (South). I am Emissary Extraordinaire to the Colonies (North).

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 23:44 UTC
          Ian Brooks said:

          Kristi, in the spirit of completely taking over Richard’s post, I agree. Apparently he had a lot of great stories and was tough as old shoe leather. He worked the (steam) railways after leaving the army.

          But seeing as he passed on to “The Great Stable in the Sky” (how do you do that funny superscript TM?) when I was 18mo old, I don’t remember him too well…

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 13 Aug 2008 - 23:45 UTC
          Ian Brooks said:

          Cath… can I be one too? Emissary Ordinaire to the Former colonies (Middle)?

          Actually, nah…

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 03:51 UTC
          Cath Ennis said:

          Ian, you’re welcome to it…

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 04:24 UTC
          Henry Gee said:

          Richard please remember that you are only Emissary Extraordinaire to the Colonies (South). I am Emissary Extraordinaire to the Colonies (North).

          In which case, as I live in Norfolk, I must be EEttC (East). Or I would be, were Norfolk not an independent country, rather like South Ossetia oooh, bit political – Ed.

          Ian - like this™. Just put -guinea pigs brackets round the TM and you’re done.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 06:09 UTC
          Bob O'Hara said:

          I used to be Emissary Extraordinaire to the Frozen Wastes (North), but then Mike and global warming arrived.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 07:15 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          Woohoo!

          Back on-topic, the FT reports a backlash:

          [Syngenta] said organic farming was harsher on the environment than GM technology. “If you were to go organic you would have to double and triple the amount of land under cultivation . . . only by using technology will you protect wild spaces and biodiversity.”

          and in its Editorial, the FT says

          The prince is mistaken on all counts.

          and

          Nonsense.

          Hoorah! Another seven chorusses of Arne, maestro.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 08:39 UTC
          Frank Norman said:

          The estimable Mark Henderson in the Times also covers the backlash today. It includes views from India and Australia (but curiously does not mention Richard).

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 10:46 UTC
          Bob O'Hara said:

          You don’t think Syngenta might be exaggerating a little, do you? I’m sure Pamela will have the figures, but there’s this from an old BBC report:

          They [Swiss boffins] found organic yields were on average 20% smaller than those from conventional agriculture.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 20:15 UTC
          Ian Brooks said:

          Thanks™ but why doesn’t it work with other stuff©?

          OT: I hate having this bloody argument with mates of mine. Happens on a regular basis… Bloody organic farming nonsense.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 14 Aug 2008 - 22:02 UTC
          Jennifer Rohn said:

          We handled a lot of organic farming papers when I was looking after an agricultural journal, and 80% of normal sounds too high. It must depend on which intensive farming techniques are being compared.

        • Date:
          Friday, 15 Aug 2008 - 03:29 UTC
          Pamela Ronald said:

          Anna, I just joined the house and am enjoying all the comments. As I said on my blog, I did send the Prince our book (published by Oxford University press in the UK). After all it is entitled “Tomorrow’s Table: organic Farming, genetics and the future of food” and, surely someone so interested in these issues would read it, right?

          My finery is ready and I have found a clean t-shirt for my husband. We are prepared to travel for tea but have not yet received the palace invitation.

        • Date:
          Friday, 15 Aug 2008 - 19:23 UTC
          Mike Fowler said:

          Bob, as a statistician, I’m appalled that you’ve quoted some “average” guff from the Swiss. Bayes is probably rolling in his grave. If he was buried with the right priors.
          Pamela, I’m not sure all that inbreeding makes it easy for the Royals to read. But they probably have a man to do that for them.
          Bob, you’re welcome to your Emissarial duties, I’m focussing on developing relations with more clement climes. Typing of which, I’ll be watching some rugby in a certain antipodean bar tomorrow if you fancy a break from the beast and blogging.

          And while we’re talking about formatting, how do you add a caption to a picture?

        • Date:
          Saturday, 16 Aug 2008 - 07:28 UTC
          Bob O'Hara said:

          Thanks you, Mike. I had already received then invitation to console Johan.

          There is a full textile manual. If you want to add alt text, put it in brackets between the url and the exclamation mark. If you just want to add some text underneath it, you have to … add some text underneath it.

        • Date:
          Wednesday, 20 Aug 2008 - 18:21 UTC
          Ed Rybicki said:

          Thank deities I live in teh Deepest South, and do not have to dignify that idiot Charles Windsor with any title…I read the Telegraph article on a plane back to South Africa from Scotland, and got a couple of people very worried as I expostulated and said things like “Arsehole!” not exactly sotto voce. Or even quietly, for that matter.

          Idiot!! Where does he get off talking such rubbish?? Only in the UK could a hereditary dimwit get any airtime talking off the top of his head – wearing a kilt, to boot.

          I was going to blog viciously on the subject – my group has recently made the first transgenic maize resistant to the most devastating maize virus disease in Africa, so I have a vested interest – but life is too short.

          But bother him and all who sail in him. And teh bicycle he rode in on.

        • Date:
          Thursday, 21 Aug 2008 - 00:09 UTC
          Richard Grant said:

          Only in the UK could a hereditary dimwit get any airtime talking off the top of his head

          Looking on the bright side, it actually gives inbred dimwits something to do, rather than being on the dole.

          Why do you think we encourage HRHs to join the Armed Services?

        • Date:
          Thursday, 21 Aug 2008 - 21:26 UTC
          Pamela Ronald said:

          Bob,

          “They [Swiss boffins] found organic yields were on average 20% smaller than those from conventional agriculture.”

          Yes Syngenta might be exaggerating a little. Still the question remains: “Does organic farming yield as much as conventional farming?”

          This is not an easy question to answer, because it depends on the crop, the place, the farmer, the variety, the type of crop rotation used, and whether cover crops take the place of crops. Bill Liebhardt, the director of the Sustainable Agriculture Research and Education Program at UC Davis during the 1990s, determined that organic corn yields were 94% of conventional corn, organic soybean yields were 94% of conventional, and organic wheat yields were 97% of conventional. In processing tomatoes, based on 14 years of comparative research at UC Davis he found no differences in yield (Liebhardt 2001). Other researchers have found different results. A European study found that with a three-crop rotation of wheat, potatoes, and grass/clover, organic yields of wheat were 90% of conventional; organic potato yields were 58% to 66% of conventional, and organic grass/clover yields were similar to the conventional (Maeder et al. 2002). At the long-term research farm at UC Davis, after nine years of growing a corn and tomato rotation, organic corn yields were 66% of conventional, while there was no statistical difference between organic and conventional tomatoes (Denison et al. 2004).

          In general, yields on organic farms in California that Raoul has inspected were comparable to conventional farms if the organic farmer did a good job controlling weeds, supplying adequate nutrients, and didn’t have any serious pest problems. This is not always the case.

          Organic rice grown in California often has significant weed problems that can reduce yield 30% to 50%. Organic rice growers tolerate these lower yields because their inputs for weed, insect, and disease control are very low compared to conventional systems. Net profit is usually higher in the organic system because the prices for organic rice have stayed high, while conventional rice prices have barely risen above the costs of production. For example, yields in organic strawberries are 65% to 89% that of conventional production. However, organic strawberries sell for 50% to 100% more than conventional berries, and this higher price helps compensate for the lower yield (US EPA 1996).

          Still, better ways to control weeds and pests would help make organic yields more comparable to conventional, which, as the world’s population increases, may be an increasingly important issue.

        • Date:
          Friday, 22 Aug 2008 - 13:16 UTC
          Ed Rybicki said:

          The simple fact remains that, in marginal small-famer production areas such as much of Africa, organic farming as championed by European greens is the norm – as tillage is limited, spraying is almost non-existent, and weed control is via hard labour.

          And yields are among the lowest in the world for all crops, and disease is rife.

          The large-scale producers, on the other hand, get far better yields by use of mechanised tillage, high-yielding (and increasingly GM) hybrids, and chemical pest and weed control.

          And feed more people….

          Organic farming is a conceit which should be kept to pampered First Worlders.

        • Date:
          Friday, 22 Aug 2008 - 13:19 UTC
          Ed Rybicki said:

          …and in reply to Richard, it’s a pity that HRH didn’t go down with his ship a long time ago.

          And apologies for the kilt remark…after seeing your resplendent rig. I even wore one (twice) not two weeks ago.

        • Date:
          Sunday, 24 Aug 2008 - 14:37 UTC
          Ed Rybicki said:

          I KNEW I had the right image for The Chinless One…here he is, with the blonde he SHOULD ahve married.

          From a German book on British graffiti – enjoy.


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