Brain Physiology, Cognition and Consciousness group: topic
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Conceptual Issues
Alfredo Pereira Jr
Friday, 24 August 2007 06:47 UTC
Dear Colleagues:
I recognize that conceptual discussions are important to understand science. Questions and answers that we pose to and get from nature depend on our conceptual framework. At the same time, I recognize that many scientists do not have time or disposition to engage in these discussions. Creating a new topic on Conceptual Issues is an attempt to satisfy everybody, since members who are not interested (if this is not an empty set) can skip this topic, while those who are interested (not an empty set, as seen in Discussion Styles) can develop ideas here.
This is an invitation to express your concepts of mind, cognition and consciousness, and their relations with measurable/observable brain activity and behavior.
For instance, how ideas advanced by William James and Gilbert Ryle apply to the discussion of current brain science and experimental psychology?
Best Regards,
Alfredo
Updated 29 November 2007 06:48 UTC
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Dear Michael:
I don´t know how to solve this problem.
Before posting I always check the preview, and it is always fine (the alignment is automatic).Best
Alfredo
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We’re looking at improving the layout of Nature Network in the near future – several people find the main column too narrow.
The scrollbar problem you mentioned sounds like something to do with your browser. If you can, try using Firefox, which seems to look good. Or try closing the bookmarks window if you have it open.
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On viewing my last, I do not know how how part of th emiddel got lined out. If one reads it through, it reads contiuously with the same meaning without the etched section. (have to be careful not to include dashes-they continue on-at least not here instead of) May be in a real model a potential inversion places the middle part that is still important to the total content elsewhere where it still has contextual meaning, butis at one place and not the other, not both places, where priorities leave us struggling at the heavy end of a light thought. I am peculiar that way sometimes that my writng has continuity even with page one leading to page 3 etc..renumbered -has caused me troubles with tampering, if one is not wise to it. Maybe we all need new browsers to lessen our efforts not be left hanging struggling in search for a total view.
I have created a new manuscript Inversion, the record and the Record Player: With Regards to a Science of Consciousness, Consciousness and Free Will I am about to post with reference material. I added a partial search for know genetic inversions-most of the data is in bacteria, for eukaryots moost of the data refers to whole chromosome sections and little is resolved with respect to sequence in various genes. factor VIII inversions in hemophilia are characterised, and physiological rearrangements related to albinoism and vision arew characterised. Also noted is the use of genetic algarithms (originally in population genetics) to predict a model segregation of characterists through populations-is very accurate, and is also applied in other contexts :geophysics, aerosol dispersements, a model of learning -in the physical sciences employes mathematical inverses giving a more detailed magnification. Interstingly adjustments have to be made so characteristics do not “fiz out” lost to non uniqueness, generality, converge upon them selves prematurely(found also to happen in biological applications.) I think the point of the whole issue is over looked in the effort to create workable models. A total view would include the biological non working converging model as a potential reality. The labor at the keyboard, priorites, interactions, thoughts and perspective are a vital, inseparable part of the whole picture if one is discussing cogniton, behavior and genetics. A difference between downhill, uphill, on the level, peace to know where you stand what you can do, survival can reduce to a mental motion. Socrates"if one knows the truth he will act accordingly" “no such thing as will against the person” We shoud be carefull, as medical science-to fix alleviate-repair, is not the same as science ( which at a distance and a separate perspective from the doctors chambers) applied to find answers from (comunicated)observation. -
Dear Marvin:
Please post your message again. Soon I will “clean” the group site, removing all posts that have problems (in format or content).
Best,
Alfredo
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With Regards to A Science of Consciousness (repost)
The story(the mind) and the book (the brain) Nigel http://network.nature.com/forums/bpcc/438?page=4.. my pet point comes immediately to light..especially with the “Point question” how is the book reading the story?” I wanted to point out that it is always the story reading(or trying to make sense of) the book. There is no way around my interpretation regardless of the constructs or data we assemble. Some things are not knowable: all we have (are in essence) to probe is the story (our awareness and consciousness)..my view is that regarding the functioning of nature, the success of survival…that men simply add questions like children to his observations that exceed the needs of understanding .understanding of his continuance-complete meaning-especially when his philosophy is still incomplete..and that what we do not know: the question arising from inverting book with story sums to incoherent questioning. There is always a perplexity to nature:a part of the bundle:package deal in that our certainties are not constants but variables held higher in perception because they are more prominent with respect to the rest and explain more of the time the world we do experience and are familiar with But the world is always open -the forwards path is always in the greatest diversity direction of greatest openness , more surface and volume. It is just perplexing because the truth, even to our most highest held concepts is at a90 degree tangent to the line of sight-regardless of what we interpret-or concepts (for instance a detail of the road we most travel-but there are other roads) there is more question possible. The story reading the book-the story also arrives from the book:the result is all we have is the solid earth we sense, and a perception/survival mechanism that functions at it root in a manner superfluous to it. The gene for Beta-lactosidase for example is a palindrome:reads the same forwards and reverse , and goes on to process milk even if all of the rest is inverted, the road we relate to and its actual mental-response eliciting meaning: relsted to a past road(i.e that our behavior is inappropriate to the present see Nietzsche:about (on the geneology of morals) the Jews and Arians):we keep drinking eating as long as we physically sense a road. (for this reasoning I believe inversions if not a whole ironically genetic make up(e.g chromosomes are recently shown t contract to pulling forces rather than to expand-with regards our scientific planning for nature :it works against ourself-arrives from self denigrating (incoherency bearing) abstraction :which must originate and result in this phenomenon)) are at both the root and nature of what identifies mankind… and he comes to test :crossing points possessed with blinding inversions composing his nature -pass or fail there is no mechanism to say the difference and continues with his milk etc.) I think current genome mapping and analysis will find inversions related to sight and seeing -foot and mouth etc. swallowing (ideas?)(failed births related to up down water weight, etc) pathologies etc..the possibilities are immense. And yet a correct course is only a mental motion away to know this before our storys dig in the book to damage it. It is hard tofrom the ancient dialogues if something is perceived wrong then or not :a pursuit of knowledge for its own sake or a sense of something unjust, inappropriate to pursue a topic of morality and knowledge in order to define footing in a (subtly) slanted setting. I think the best,best grounded,soundest of all if George Berkeley on Mind and Matter:he never once transgresses a limit of man with respect to nature-himself:fills in the unknown with an aware always present deity as the only logical alternative and doesn’t believe in the existence of matter an odd eccentric sounding idea that is today controversial. Why are writing prominent at sometimes and unknown at others. I don’t think these occasions involve new spontaneous revelations. There are lots of new science references with new views related to emergence that open the doors to such interpretations. The theory of relativity breathes dualisms:seeks a monism but by its very conception is a monism yet incompatible immiscible with the dualisms of it’s basic nature:is very conflicting and arousing and illogical that only the highest IQs:abstractions (incoherent to ordinary language) can assimilate relative time A basic one, appropriate to consciousness and cognition is in Scientific American% – Selective Vision: the Brains Spin Machine Starts Early Anticipating Reward: More Than Meets The Eye Susanna Martinez-Conde Nigels analogy of book and story is very rich and good focusing point.
I also wanted to point out, when people fnd fault in the theory of relativity, Einstein himself admitted that it was not perfect, based on explanation of observation at a great distance. His comment was that possibly “phenomenon observed and then reconsidered” (chenged in description fromthe actual if not the phenomeneom themselves having reconsidered themselves))and that “the measureing rod and the clock do not necessarily constitute the fundamental elements..” My idea of inversion (of the timing of events)fits with Einsteins reflection on hs own theory, and I also think that the measuring rod is entailed by time , whichmust be granted, assumed without explanation..thus a monism, single element rather than a dualism. All of my papers with some artwork and 3-D graphs are available at my internet site given below.Marvin E. Kirsh
http://www.authorsden.com/marvinelikirsh
kirsh2152000@yahoo.com
http://www.marvinekirsh.com
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