Recent replies to "Basic Science in India: From Education to Research"

Reply from Dinesh Kumar Singh

Dinesh Kumar Singh — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:03:33 -0000

Thank you all for diagnosing the disease of Indian science. The suggestions given by Dr.Sharma is an absolute requirement.But, the problem is WHO WILL BELL THE CAT? If people like Dr.C.N.R.Rao or others of his stature cannot do much, how can we? I hope CSIR/DBT/DOE etc realize the problem and do something at the “top level” to make it a mandatory requirement for promotion.

Reply from Om Sharma

Om Sharma — Tue, 02 Sep 2008 10:32:49 -0000

Through Nature (India) I would like to share the forms for mentor evaluation. Please see the websites: http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/funding/policies/t32/t32evalform.pdf
& http://www.kumc.edu/som/facdev/mentoring/j1Annual_Evaluation_of_Mentor.doc

These are meant for the research students who are not fully aware of what they should expect from their mentors. Likewise, I am sure the mentors also need to know what they professionally and morally are required to provide to their students. I am sure once the students get professional and personal care from the mentors they reciprocate by bench-work and intellectual and professional inputs. Here, I would like to refer to another article which contains interesting links regarding how students of Nobel Laureates have been winning Nobel Prizes (Sharma OP (2007) Nobel Mission, Current Sci VOL. 92 (3) 269, Feb. 2007) and
http://www.careerchem.com/NAMED/NobelAnecdotes1.pdf

Om Sharma
omsharma53@yahoo.com

Reply from Gajendra Raghava

Gajendra Raghava — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 18:36:23 -0000

I am highly impress with articles written by prof O.P. Sharma in current science. These articles present the ground reality. His thoughts are mind-blowing. Its responsibility of every one to do some thing to make system better. I will highly appreciate, Prof Sharma’s view on possible solutions to rise from present situation.

Reply from Bikash Mohanty

Bikash Mohanty — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:06:30 -0000

Hello friends,
I’ve just read Dr Sharma’s thought provoking article in Current Science. Sir, you have presented our ‘words of heart’ to the scientific community in a well researched manner. The statistics at the beginning is shocking. I hope the article will ignite some thoughts in the science-policy-makers’ minds as well. True, we have to evaluate the mentors if we want knowledge and not mere degrees. And your suggestions for making India scientifically sound are welcome. Money and recognition are always criteria for choosing a career (if not only) as Dr Raghava pointed out – at this point of time, the people who are distributing these things, must think twice.
To continue, India always needs people like you.

Reply from Gajendra Raghava

Gajendra Raghava — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 15:56:35 -0000

Hi,
We need to understand why people prefer a particular profession. Mostly based on opportunities available, recognition and money. In science number of jobs (opportunity) is very limited with poor salary ; same time its not well recognize (coverage in popular media is limited) professions. Expectation of high quality in teaching is unrealistic till we their is fundamental changes. According to me we should have high salary for profession like teaching or science so our society respect these profession and attract. See information technology is popular today as their is money and opportunities.

Reply from Om Sharma

Om Sharma — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:41:32 -0000

I have discussed, essentially, this issue in a recent article in Current Science.
Sharma OP (2008) Mediocrity in Indian Science – Algorithm for a turnaround, Current Sci Vol 95 (4) Pg 448-449.
The so-called frustrated guys as Bikash says, also have a lot of potential. We have a crisis of mentorship due to casual entry into faculty (just to complete the numbers) over the years. I hope a perusal of the article I have referred to would provide answers to most of the questions.
Om P Sharma, PhD
IVRI
Regional Station
Palampur
omsharma53@yahoo.com

Reply from thirumal rao

thirumal rao — Sat, 30 Aug 2008 06:02:14 -0000

Dear Bikash,

Thanks for your response and guidance. I just hope a time will come when ppl like me are dealt with lesser punitive action for a single wrong decision taken at the budding stage.

Reply from Bikash Mohanty

Bikash Mohanty — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 14:13:29 -0000

Dear Thirumal,
I appreciate your enthusiasm to learn and to teach science as well. But I am afraid that probably no basic science college or institution is having science classes for engineers right now. However, some do have short-term courses to refresh and update knowledge. You have to keep track of these courses. You can see the announcements in “Current Science” journal’s web page. And please do not let the beautiful urge of promoting science to go waste. Do gather students in your locality and discuss science with them and help them enjoy science. All the best.

Reply from thirumal rao

thirumal rao — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:44:58 -0000

Wonderful topic and a relevant one for me!!

I am a software engineer by profession. But a thorough science enthusiast!! I would love to get into science career(i love teaching and research oriented jobs) if given an opportunity to do so.
But the problem is, I don dee any exemption or special encouragement given to ppl like us. Due to heavy work schedule I am not able to devote much time to study for GATE and other exams which r mandatory for post graduations.

I would like to know if any of the prestigious institutions are offering any courses in basic science for engineering graduates over wekends.. so tht it ll both help us update ourselves and also aide in deciding if we can really pursue science as a career. I m saying this coz i feel there is a huge misconception abt the scope for science graduates who pursue research.

Reply from Bikash Mohanty

Bikash Mohanty — Thu, 15 May 2008 13:56:55 -0000

Dear Siva and other friends,
First I should apologize for a dormant spell and a late reply.
Role models are always there and needed. Just, we have to find and keep them. School authorities play vital role in bringing them to students. I am happy to note here that a school at Bhubaneswar (DAV Public School) is regularly inviting many great scientists including Nobel laureates to its annual ceremonies to motivate students. Such thing should be encouraged by other schools too.
Yes, young faculties from our country and other parts of the world can convince youth better to take Science careers.
I also agree with your other suggestions strongly.
Now when our thoughts have started walking towards the goal, perhaps we need some more concrete action-plans.

Reply from Siva Muthukrishnan

Siva Muthukrishnan — Mon, 12 May 2008 22:16:23 -0000

I think, we need to address several issues:
1. We need strong role models. If I am a Science student in India, do I have contemporary role models to emulate? If yes how do we make them available to school students?

2. Economics is important, but as pointed out by several others, if a decent simple living is offered many bright people will opt Science provided there is intellectual freedom and some strong financial support for research.

3. Our media should help increasing Scientific awareness.

4. Try to recruit many young faculty from all over the world by creating favorable environment and they will convince youth to take Science careers.

5. Improve library infrastructure and promote good books in regional languages.

Just a few thoughts to begin with..

Reply from A S Harsha Vardhan

A S Harsha Vardhan — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 10:18:50 -0000

Nature Network Community on Orkut, come join the community and spread a Word about Nature Network on Orkut.

To view the ‘Nature Network’ community page, visit: http://www.orkut.com/Community.aspx?cmm=44963713

Reply from Bikash Mohanty

Bikash Mohanty — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 14:31:09 -0000

Hello friends,
First, I must thank you all to keep the thoughts going. Kaushik, your understanding of the economy of science definitely gives us new insights. Science has to be much more attractive in all senses than it is now. To me, it is. We just have to wipe out the dust covering it. Almost all the economic blooms grow out of science in some way or the other. Just we have to realize this. At the same time I agree with you that the passion of some has to become the profession of many. That is, science education must be capable of feeding the mass. Having more universities and qualified teachers in the country is essential for this.
I am utmost happy that people like Prithivi Raj are joining our network. Such positive think-tanks are always needed. I believe that all of us in this network are optimistic people and we wish that research in India to should grow into a banyan tree. Yes, science has to be made more reachable to common man. Mass media has to play great role for this. Here I want to mention a sad thing. We do not have enough science magazines in India to reach common audience. The number has to grow. Again I must say, “individual efforts count the most”.

Reply from Prithivi Raj.J

Prithivi Raj.J — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:41:13 -0000

hi,
All fine but the problem is in research itself.
See the basic desire of life is “Happiness (in all sense within one self and in relations with others) and prosperity (in terms of physical facilities)”

The main reason, I think, y one, as a parent cant think that his / her son / daughter cant b prosper if they do land in research is that even we people, I mean those in research keep shouting “No enough funds”!!!!

The same is true for happiness too!!!! There r more people (who r either Ph.D. studs / researchers) who keep on talking that “Research is hell; Research makes u home sick, and all the like”......

I unknowingly fell into the research arena and to know whats research and to know how people feel abt research, I looked on web!!!

I first landed on “Orkut groups like RESEARCH IS HELL / websites like Ph.D. comics”

So I think first we have to try to clear such impressions created in the society by us or our seniors. then we must also be media savy!!!! See when ever a paper is published we have to call for a press conference and talk on it so that the common man will know whats going on in research institutes!!!!

Also I would suggest every research group in IITs / IISc / CSIR labs etc…. must I repeat MUST publish a general article abt the basics of what they work on. The plan is sooooo simple.

Make a list of all research group in an IIT (for example). Make another list of some highly reaching monthly / weakly / daily !!! Now assign a time table for each group according to which they will send mail (to the corresponding editor,) an article….

By this way we go closer to people and tell them that we r really excited to be in research!!! and make them to read more on science than on IT companies.

Then all (at least new researchers) must at least take a oath for themselves that “I wont behave like a boss (as my senior did to me) once I become a senior”

There is some hidden meaning in the above line because of which I feel y people after entering into research go for other jobs…. (even though they liked research while they entered). But I did not want to make this nature network page into one that may divert our from coming into research!!!!

Also India is excelling in IT / ITES, this means that one can get a job near his home (or in a nearby city which would take hardly 6 hrs to travel in weekends to meet his dear ones) and earn in 5 figures. So y they have to still b a student (in what is called hell by the people who r already onto it) for 7 more years (2 for Masters and 5 for Ph.D.) But this is not true with a research admission!!!! How many of us know abt the research / magazines like nature in our school life? I did not know that IITs have research facilities in them!!!! till I finish B.Tech.

Also I dont know y the research jobs in IITs / IISc / CSIR labs r purely temporary!!!! See the fact is that there is no one turning to research and if at all some one rarely look into a research vacancy, the ad itself say “Dont look at me” bcoz “you r not entitled to clime a permanant job”

So lets first feel proud f research and try to sort out the problems of our lab mates especially the juniors then lets expand it to the students thru media and lets try to share our high level research with the common media so that some school students get a chance to fix their roll models in research!!!!

The more we get into the common media the more a common man feels that there is a career option like this!!!! and finally lets accept that there is lack of manpower in research and try to recognize them with a better pay and a permanent job!!!!

Reply from Kaushik Saha

Kaushik Saha — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 13:51:46 -0000

The questions raised by Bikash are very timely and important. However, a few things needs to be considered before we can expect parents, students and educators to think differently about science.

The academic system works like a pyramid in India – undergrads, postgrads, doctorals, postdocs and faculty members. Getting a position in a university faculty is extremely difficult all over the world. However, in the very developed countries like UK, USA or Germany (and unlike France or Italy), many successful graduates leave science and joins corporate sectors. They are given corporate jobs not because there are plenty but because they are apt at those jobs – that is because of their training in transferable skills like presentation skill, group activity etc. They don’t have to finish a huge syllabus by sticking to books. Then comes the doctoral students – several recent doctorates leave science and follow the same route as their graduate counterparts. They start with a better salary because they have transferable skills as well as proven intellectual ability because of their PhD research. Remaining are the postdocs. After their course, several of them leave academia and join R&D sectors of companies.

The situation is slightly different in India. Corporate jobs are increasing in numbers but the their salaries are in many cases not comparable to their BE MBA/MBBS MD counterparts. Most of the jobs are in the call centres, which are not very attractive because of the physical and mental stresses associated with the jobs. Companies do not invest much in R&D unless it is directly related to profit. In the very developed countries, a huge amount of money is spent in studying environmental impact of all sorts of manufacturing/building works recruiting innumerable scientists in that field – this is either ignored or manipulated in India.

That was the story of availability of jobs – but there is another aspect of the story – job satisfaction. In India, institutional funding is almost same for most of the institutes and salaries are exactly the same all over the country. No where in the world, not even in the USA, it is possible to maintain hundreds of universities and colleges at the same standard. There has to be an incentive for more efficient scientists. Science is a profession and not a sacrifice. In the USA, there has not been any increase in the research grant for last five years or so because of Iraq and because of Bush’s academic policies (who really does not live in science). This was enough, even in the USA, to demotivate thousands of brilliant young Americans to study business instead of science.

That is why while India is getting richer and richer in technological and clinical knowledge base, it is still very poor in academic knowledge base. And the result is, for developing technologies, India still needs to buy the fundamental knowledge base from another country.

The change in academic scenario requires changes in thousands other things – real corporate boom, environmental consciousness, gradation of universities, foundation of private universities, shifting the centre of gravity of undergraduate education from colleges to universities where there postgraduate research is going on, etc. The last one is really important and requires building of innumerable universities in a big country like India. In UK only, there are over 2000 universities in addition to community colleges. Community colleges are for not-so-ambitious people who want a Bachelors’ degree. This is indeed a very difficult job given the present economic scenario of India. Alternatively, the existing universities can be turned to undergraduate + postgraduate teaching and research institutes and only a lucky few will study in those universities for their undergraduate degrees. That will give motivation to study science at least to some people. Without research, science is meaningless, even at the undergraduate level.

Studying basic science in mother tongue is good but is not essential. German students must learn English from class VI to take Biology at the undergraduate level. Proper training of teachers is lacking in India. And that is because these teachers mostly have graduated from colleges (equivalent to community colleges in the west) and not universities, where postgraduate research is going on.

The bottom-line is that science that is being taught in the universities has to have some applications and there has to be a way to apply that knowledge for the benefit of the society. Now this an ‘egg and chicken’ dilemma. However, I think the universities should make a change in the syllabus first to initiate the process. Just compare the number of Indian universities that give a degree in Biomedical Sciences and that give a degree in Botany. The second one simply outnumbers the first one. To attract more intelligent students, you have to make science more interesting and make it such that it can be used for the benefit of the society i.e. it can be sold.

Reply from Bikash Mohanty

Bikash Mohanty — Mon, 04 Feb 2008 12:30:25 -0000

Dear teacher friend, Hemanta and all,
Right! Reading, publishing and making money is not science. But most people in science in India are doing this only. There is fault in attitude from the school itself. As soon as a child reach middle school his/her parents decide how he/she will make money in future. In the rat-race of our generation a child has no time to think by himself/herself and understand the natural phenomena occurring around. He/she has contact with the world only through books and computers. Mechanical. I feel the proper education of the parents is much more needed than their children. Else India will continue to produce high quality intellectual slaves.
Yes, basic science has to be promoted in regional languages too. Then only it can reach the real scientists of the soil. It has to be groomed from the beginnings.
At this point I wish to mention another important thing. Fraudulence in science has to be stopped. Many universities are giving higher degrees to below standard students. And such so called people of science not only degrades the condition of science in the country but also demoralize others to take interest in science. Education has to be more stringent at higher level. Else how can we get good teachers?
Thanks for your noble thoughts. Of course, change is possible. And all changes start from individual ideas. Keep thinking.

Reply from Hemanta Naik

Hemanta Naik — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 15:10:58 -0000

Science is a culture that is missing in our school system. This is true with many developing countries in Asia and Africa. Most of our science courses were designed keeping in mind to create a scientfic manpower to serve the global industries situated in the north. In India I didn’t see science or technology working for the nation. Whether it is a BASIC SCIENCE or APPILIED SCIENCE.

A country with billion souls require a definite MAP of science education. The BASIC Science should have a strategic short term and long term plans. Basic Science necessarily doesnot mean publications in so called reputed publications. We need such a mechanism where a science from Ivory Tower gets into masses. Today India is youthful. Much of its population is Youth. Because of no proper planning many youths donot get motivated to come to Basic Science. Ask how many good scoring, intelligent people want to move to Teaching Profession? Most of the time it is none.

I have dealt with many thousand teachers in Asia and Africa. It remains teachings as a job without any proper mentoring to the students. Just watch any Telivision, Media, in General it is only people with technical background make a hay days. Even if you pass or fail in a Pre University , one can afford to get placements in CHEAP CALL CENTRES or BPO’s in which they get fat purse.

BASIC SCIENCE requires holistic looks. After six decades of largest democracy our Science is not able to solve the day to day problems related to health, education, employment generation ….. list goes on.

We require a more down to earth programmatic approach to solve the mysterious BASIC Science problem. We should take grassroot level activists, field workers into the debate. Only few elite scientists sitting in the A/C room cannot formulate the policy of Basic Science Education and dump it on the masses. It is mass approach to education can bring solution to the problem that exist today and Tomorrow.

BASIC SCIENCE Education should be made available in local language. Different types of Formal and Non Formal Intervention in Teaching Skill is required to make a healthier Basic Science. Many teacher who teach Mathematics do not know where do youy apply Pythogorus Theorem and History of Indian Mathematics or Mathematicians is absolutely forgotten. Visulisation is Missing in Teaching Science.

I have focused the subject here in a Radiant Manner but people appreciate people to think in a focussed manner!

Change is Possible, Believe in it only the people who want to bring change should change themselves and also their holistic approach.

Reply from anonymous

anonymous — Sun, 03 Feb 2008 08:53:33 -0000

I teach in a college. The students who join college are increasingly demotivated (compared to even 5 years ago). One reason is as has already been commented, the push they receive towards engineering/ medicine / IT from their parents. But I think it has more to do with school education. They start coaching classes from the VII class and this consists of regular school and a repeat mugging of all what is taught later in the evening. The children are inside classrooms from 8am to 7 pm!!!
Interest in Science comes from observing the wonders around you. Wondering why clouds form patterns , why frost forms only on the edges of leaves, how a spider can make such beautiful webs etc. You can make a child memorise all the formulae and solve all problems in twenty textbooks without awakening in him/her the wonder that drives scientific pursuit.
I asked my students once recently ” Have you not felt that great joy when some idea/concept that you could not understand, suddenly becomes clear to you?” Not one person has. They have all got marks above 80%, some even 97% in science, but never really learnt anything.
Another aspect is this, It is a mistake for anyone to pursue research in science unless they can feel that great desire to know, to understand. Otherwise even research is conducted like physics practicals. (is the result right? otherwise let us adjust the readings till it looks right ..what the guide wants us to get)
Instead of increasing syllabii and putting in difficult-to-explain concepts into school text books, the thrust must be on observing and learning ..not lab experiments, but the world around and from these, scientific principles must be derived. Only then will we get true scientists.

Reply from Bikash Mohanty

Bikash Mohanty — Sat, 02 Feb 2008 12:08:13 -0000

Hello Rudraksh,
Thanks for your great suggestions. You are right to notice that the youth of our country lack motivation in science. In absence of ‘role models’ the youngsters gather wrong notions about science misleading their careers. Though recognized educational organizations play an important role in raising science, it is time for smaller bodies to get themselves recognized by doing so. To me, individual efforts also have a large say. Thus, your concern about keeping good teachers at colleges and universities is most important. Teachers should be those who start their learning with students and not those who think by getting a lecturer/professor position their job is over. Therefore, more stringency is required for their appointment.
Shouldn’t parents be more careful in where to send their children to study. After all they’re equally responsible in making India a better country.

Reply from anonymous

anonymous — Fri, 01 Feb 2008 16:18:04 -0000

One of the major problems facing youth of our country which dissuades them to take up science as a career option is the requirement to understand the concerned subject at deepest possible level. Obviously there is a lot of motivational requirement to pursue science. Even in the fields of choice options like information technology, computer science our educational institutors are apt in producing large number of knowledge workers or if put bluntly intellectual slaves. Unless youth are motived to excel through original thinking our country can not leap forward to front running states.
How to motivate students? It can be done through highly organized mechanism to be led by recognized bodies like Indian Academy of Sciences, National Science Academy, Chemical Research Society of India etc. College lecturers, who are in the crux of the matter should be selected purely on merit on All India Basis and colleges should opt them on “not-belong-to-soil” basis from the pool. In this manner good quality lecturers become available to teach and motivate students.
Even though, there not a single solution to this complex issue of upping India Science, above suggestions should go long way in rectifying maladies plaguing our educational system.
Rudraksh