Bringing all the Indian scientists together!
Govindsamy Vediyappan
Sunday, 24 February 2008 14:52 UTC
Hello members,
Its very nice to meet you all in this forum. As an NRI scientist, I have met bright, hard working and dedicated Indian scientists and students in foriegn labs. When I left the country for my post doc fifteen years ago, it was an exiting oppurtunity. I was so much thrilled to see the lab facilities, resources, freedom and the transparency of the US labs. I observed the same kind of exitement and enthusiasm in every Indian student or postdoc I met in those labs in the following years. This exitement drived us to work hard or by very nature we Indians are hard workers.
I would like to pose a question to our members. How can we bring our scientists back to India ? or If you are an NRI and scientist and wish to go back to India, WHAT are all your expectations ? Would you like to work in a government lab or would you like to join the private sectors ?
Is it possible for all of us, NRI scientists to come together as a group to start a Research Foundation? ! How can we put these words in to action? Please post your thoughts !
Thanks
Govind
Updated 24 February 2008 16:56 UTC
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Hi Govind,
Thanks for igniting a wonderful discussion. I don’t have much experience like you but I know how Indians work here in US labs. One thing I have learnt from my discussion with friends that you can not bring researchers back to India but only they can return if they are interested or wish to do same exciting science from India. I will return to India and would love to work in academics. I would not differentiate government or private lab as long as I enjoy freedom of research, guiding, and publishing.WHAT are my expectations? also my friends expect? I know everything is good in India except the PAY. I don’t mind this when I return, but it may change mind of couple of my friends with whom I chat for hours about Indian science.
Indian labs (Some at least) have nothing less than any US lab, I also see plenty of funding but might be having less opportunities to get in as a Faculty. This all I am sharing here as I know myself and I have heard from my friends. These are may be my words but voice of all my smart friends working here.Govind, I am lifting my both hands for your idea of research foundation for dedicated science. If all like minded with good attitude comes together, I dont think any thing is impossible for Indian Scientists. I know i have not given any ideas as I am thinking on that but want to see how this discussion will go further.
Govind, I could not see your full profile so why don’t you update it so that if some one feel you may of better help to them in research and may come to you. Its my sincere request to all those who have established well any where and are part of this forum.
Thanks
Yogi -
Hello Govind:
I know how we all work harder and try to stay abreast to our peers. I can feel the vibes in my Indian friends of thinking going back and some have actually gone back home too. But, finding clear answers about thejob prospects and the financial issues is too difficult. I would like to know the right situation as well.
Indian Economy and biotech growth is quite promising and talking to few friends shows that backflow of brain drain is not bad idea.
But I am no help in telling whats the best at this point but would like to hear others.
Taruna -
Dear Govind, Thanks for initiating good discussion. I am a scientist working in India. In india most of things are improving except salary difference between India and USA. I have written my views on this issue may be useful for this discussion Role of Money in Indian Science and Indian Postdocs . I will write my view on above topic soon
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First of all thanx to Govind for starting this discussion. As a student being in early stage of my career, I cant answer these questions well, but I request the senior scientists to guide in this direction.
First of all about salary. In one of the recent studies it was found that if u compare the purchaging power of people, then Indian scientists are getting higher salary than their european counter part. So it should nt be a very big issue.
My main concern is about the research conditions. I know now many of the Indian research institutes have world class facilities, but other than the machines, the thing which matter is the environment, the collaborations. Do scientists in India have strong collaborations among them like in europe or USA or are these collaborations possible? Here if I need to know a technique for my project and my collaborators have that technique, I can go to them, stay for few days and learn the technique. Are similar things possible in India? As I dont have much experience as I said, but certainly I want to go back to India after my studies and most probably in academics. So I will like to hear views from scientists working in India. -
Dear Gajendra, I read your comment on Money in Indian science. Well said. Thanks for sharing wonderful thoughts.
One thing I wanted to tell in support of Sumit that collaborations are lacking. I appreciate that he pointed out well which is major requirement for growth and development in science. During my research in India, in 7 years I never came across this collaboration attitude as I worked in both state university with little funding and a premier institute where I never worried about funding.
At same time, Sumit I want to tell you, there are at least more than 10 such places where you can work same or even better than any lab in US, where neither funding is problem nor facilities or working atmosphere. Many times its the administration which needs to support scientists in procuring chemicals by making easy and early way to get chemicals. I don’t know how much Gajendra agrees with me?
Some time back, I read in some place (sorry I don’t remember its Nature Medicine)that in an convocation, Dr Manmohan singh was expressing his deep concerns about not usage of funding in state universities and also brain drain of young scientists.
I was puzzled reading that because we all know he has excellent scientific advisory committee comprising smartest scientists that India ever had in science and they know all things we are discussing here. Then why no action in that direction?? Instead of expressing concerns, sitting at highest level of policy making, why not set aside some time to understand why everyone wants to do anything other than PhD? Why so many scientists who were trained by Indian facilities are not returned though they are not faculty in abroad (I respect if they think it’s worth to stay back than to come and struggle)?
I agree with Gajendra that Indian science is improving as I have myself experienced. But I know unless we address some basic issues like SALARY which is very much essential to live in big cities like Bangalore, Pune, and others where today’s premier institutes are located, it is hard to motivate someone to return to India from the place where he/she gets his/her antibody in 24 hrs compared to 3-6 months or don’t know here.I don’t know who should do what, but there is a lot to do and to worry to make Indian science rocking.
I appreciate the opportunity given to me to share my ideas here.
Thanks
Yogi -
Sorry I dont remember the reference for my coment abt salary comparison of Indian and other scientists, but I guess it was in one of nature journal recently. As yogesh said in my personel communication tht salary of scientist D in India is 20k, but yogesh I have to say tht, this is basic salary. In all or most of Indian institutes scientists as well as students get accomodation at the institute itself which is big advantage compare to west (or at least this is nt the case at MPI Freiburg where I study). I think the scientists have to show their potential and try for big fellowships like HHMI, Wellcome trust or National Academy of Sciences, India. I know these fellowships are so limited and everyone cant get it, but thts how nature works. Its competetion everywhere. If u want to do smthing for India and also want enough money for ur family, I think this is the best way.
But still, pls make me correct if I m wrong. -
Gobind:
What did you have in mind when you say “research foundation”?
Alok
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First, i think that given the opportunity majority of us indian scientist would love to go back to India. So what will it take to attract indian scientist back home? This is a gargantuan task. I think it has to be a multi-pronged approach which will take input both from public and private sector. While money will have to be raised from private consortium for world class facilities such as what is happening in Singapore right now, government will have to make it a focus and increase the funding for basic and translational research. I don’t think i have said anything earth shattering but i will stop here now and let others comment some more
alok
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Hi Friends:
It is wonderful to find this forum with so many fellow Indian scientists. And this is a great topic about comparing research facilities in India versus here.
In my opinion, the reverse brain drain has already started and many of the facilities and labs in India are now shaping up to be as good or better than the ones you find here.
I came here in 1975 for Ph.D. and in spite of all the intentions of going back, ended up staying here. At that time, scope for good, satisfying jobs in India was very limited. But now, if I were to finish my studies at this point in time, I think I would stay and work in India.
In terms of science jobs and payscale, I think the situation is steadily improving and now the same revolution that we saw in IT field, is happening in pharmaceutical, biotech, and chemical field. Already major pharma companies are outsourcing their research to India and this in turn is creating a very stimulating, creative environment in R&D and India will be needing more and more scientists. In fact one of my client companies is currently looking for a number of scientists to work in a variety of fields in India for stem cell research and drug discovery (you can check these by searching for SourceIndia in naturejobs.com) and their labs are world class. And so are the labs of many of the leading pharma and biotech companies in India.
For someone who is a senior scientist here and whose kids are now in college, this may be an ideal situation to lead a very comfortable, but intellectually stimulating life. And we will see more and more of such opportunities as India tries to attract back its scientists who now have acquired world class experience and knowledge. And as payscales continue to rise, one will also see scientists of other nationalities calling India its home.
I think one of the things that is still a bit lacking in India is the fascination in industry with “foreign” technology. Echoing Govind’s thoughts, it would be great if we can support development of original Indian technology and help with licensing it world-wide. Perhaps we could give it further thought and come up with a mechanism to support it.
best regards,
yatin
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Hello Yatin, thanks for wonderful analysis and also telling about outsource thing. Probably you did best at that time. Doing best at this time depends on young people like us. I hardly seen any one interested in discussing this topic. You, Gobind,and Raghava already settled. Other four like me are looking eagerly at latest developments based on which they can decide. I request some one like Raghava ( I appreciate his efforts in his previous postings) or any other senior scientist to put more light on this topic so that at least people know what is current situation and what are prospects. I believe that may educate many like me and encourage many others. I am sure many are interested but they really dont know what is the current situation. Even Tarun mentioned it and I repeat the same here. I am bit disappointed with less volume of discussion, because these discussions are the ones which can educate us (who are outside for any reason). Hope things improve.
Thanks
Yogi
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