Indian Postdocs
Gajendra Raghava
Tuesday, 22 January 2008 18:03 UTC
Dear Colleagues
I am reading lot of postings on Indian Science, like “Why India is falling behind in Science, Indian Post-docs for India. After reading emails it seems that majority of peoples on network are Post-docs working abroad. Based on response, It seems peoples believe that it is not money but Indian system responsible for poor science. This is the reason that our PDF’s do not wants to return back to India. Here, I am posing another question to PDF’s working abroad. Whether Indian’s working abroad are happy with science system in foreign country. I mean they got all opportunities etc which they deserve. I am raising this question because percent of Indians in Faculty is much lower than percent of PDF’s in labs. It is due to poor education/quality of our Indian Post-docs or something else.
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Dear Gajendra,
This is the same question I ask myself every day..How many indian PhD/Postdocs working abroad become group leaders in foreign country??
Ans: 1.0% or less
Q: Why?
Simple Ans:
1. Nationality
2. Language
3. Funding RestrictionsI know, I can do much better science than others in my next 10 years of postdoc abroad.. but becoming a group leader is not easy.. even if I have excellent publication record.
So, its not poor quality or something.. its just not that easy as we think..
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This is about one’s own perception about life. We need to keep in mind that science is only a part of our lives, may be a big part, but surely not everything. It’s almost impossible to have a decent life in India with resonable morality and honesty. If you try too hard, you will end up fighting with almost everyone, may be with your own family members. Your own kid will find you mad or “impractical”. Secluded life for those who have less courage to oppose corruption and/or willing to use that for his/her own interest. Till there are many Indians who prefer to have a peaceful, resonably honest life abroad than to fight every day. For that they like to compromise professional success and fame. Many do prefer to go back Indian when they can affod to avoid people and live a relatively peaceful life.
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Dear Jayanta
It seems that you are too frustrated with Indian system. You are making general statements based on your personal experience. I have reverse experience that most of us in our institutes feel this is most decent, peaceful profession where one may live with self respect and honesty. Indian system is not as bad as you describe. -
Nice to know that you enjoy your research career in an Indian Institute like IMTECH (I know IMTECH and visited there).
I came to research with a goal towards my society and country (besides satisfying my intellectual pursuit). It was not just a profession and ways to earn money/fame, but a mission. Moreover, people do go by their own experience, expectation/ambition and real data to guide their own lives. What you think right is surely your personal opinion. And the same way, I am entitled to have my own opinion. If the goals are same, based on honest and sincere desire then the ways are not that important. You can try in your own way and I’ll in my ways.I used to think, till a few months ago, that I could contribute to my country/society being a part of the system. That’s why I tried my best to do meaningful research in India before going out of that country to do my PhD. And it’s the same reason I went back to India (to join a job there). But now I think I can contribute to my country more efficiently when I am out of the system that does not protect whistle blowers or a person who is reasonably straightforward and feels guilty to silently tolerate corruption going on around him/her. It’s the same urge that I am spending so much time in forums like this.
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I guess frustration is obvious..
And its not that system is bad… it’s the people who are running the system..
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I see a lot of your posting. And I think being in your position, you can do a lot more than people like us promoting science for others and not for our own country.
Why you dont find lot of Indians at higher position is because here they have a pyramidical structure and they need lot of people at base and less as it goes on. And its the son of the soil concept so definitely foreighners wont get a lot of chance at the higher position. It has nothing to do with our educational system. We are the best.
The problem comes back to Indian research system. We always lag behind. Take an example of HapMap project. All the countries including china have participated. We have not. So now we have SNP map of whole world except of India. How can you expect Biotechnology to develop. You can do analysis on Chinease/European/American population, but whats the use.The research funding here is based on individual scientist who fight (healthy fight) among themselves aiming at getting more patents and publications. I have no idea how funding systems work in India. But this concept here creates a good amount of pressure to work, which is very less in Indian acedemics.
And acedemics cannot run alone. Where is the biotech revolution which we keep talking. In india govt promotes companies only by creating Biotech parks. Here its different. Both acedemia and commercial companies work together. They get joint fundings even from govt. I was a part of one Wyeth collabaration where the govt pooled 2 million euros.
The funding here is not directly from government, but through an intermediate agency for each type of research. So it becomes easier for the agency to understand what each one is doing. Regular impartial reviews is also a part of that.
SO WHATS THE SOLUTION
1)Focus on commercialization
2)Work on collabarations
3)Never ever miss the foreign collabaration specially the big joint projects.
4)Better and impartial funding. -
You said, “It has nothing to do with our educational system. We are the best”. According to me, it has everything to do with our education system. We all come from the same pool of people, be it scientist, artist, dentist or politicians, police or bereaucrates. The core value of majority of us is dictated by our socio-political condition and education. When we blame politicians or Govt red tape, we need to remember that we get what we deserve.
Indian education system is just enough to produce scientific/tech coolies but not scientists and technocrates. We selectively discard a kid who has independent and original thinking. Private tution and coaching enbabled education and evaluation system are killing creativity and promoting mediocrity.
You can check the following news report in Times of India to have an idea what common indian kids get in the name of education (in primary and high schools). -
Well Jayant
Thats a different story. If we were inferior in education, we wont be in such a large number in foreign countries. Even here when I look at the Indian research students and the students here, most of them are at par or better.
Indian education is still by far a lot competitive till graduation/Masters. An Indian graduate has more knowledge that that of anywhere else.
The problem is when it comes to higher education. That can improve with the improvement of research.
And in a country with 100 cr population you can expect all the evils that u said. Tell me a country, which has such a high population density and is better that ours. If you will hear the conditions in china, you will cry.
We go for a higher education because we want a better job, more job security, getting a beautiful bride/dowry, status in society etc. In developed countries people go for higher education out of interest. Here even if you don’t study, you will get an equally paying job and everyone here is equal in society. Ever wondered in our own country, you have food with the toilet cleaners. Here we do. Ever thought director in India will open door for you or greet u first. Here they do. So that probably answers your questions,,,,why we are scientific/tech coolies. We study out of pressure and not out of genuine interest. If I want to be a painter, my parents would not allow, and ultimately I will become a tech coolie as you said. So I study and since I am not genuinely interested I start using additional inputs such as mugging up the subject, being in good records of boss, giving gifts to bosses and doing petty works for your boss and like that. The boss also enjoys that and slowly becomes a culture. A genuinely interested guy wont do these things and will fall short of the rival.
Its the curse of population explosion and we have to live with that. But we are developing and things are lot improving.
In foreign country we don’t rise, because we don’t belong there. When we come back we forget the research culture we learned and become a part of happy living. -
First it all depends on how you define education. To me, education is not about earning degrees or passing exams. You can read my blog to know what I mean by education and if India is a better place to bring up kids. And according to me the chance of getting a good education is far less in India than that in western world. As you admitted that in western world people do things mainly out of love, here in India people are forced to do things to survive. Our parents, society force us to join science for many reasons, even when I am not good at science but enjoy something else. We can justify in whatever ways we like, but the consequence is dangerous for the society and for higher education. A person who would have been a great artist is now doing IT, a potential sportsman is wasting his time in labs. And a person who could have been a great scientist with innovative thinking did not get good marks to join higher education. These are very typical incidents in Indian society these days, and will remain so in near foreseeable future.
If the base is not good, you can never have a strong house with fancy roof.
As I said in other posts, we are not everywhere in the world due to our great education and ingenuity but due to our average education with a great ability to do others jobs (as a labor force to run their industries). Till few years ago China was the major manpower supplier to US. Now due to several incidences and political reasons, India is the preferred source. And the success rate of Indians in a foreign land is just the rule of average, not anything better. We have so many Indians going abroad every year, ho many do you hear as a great scientist of world fame? Hardly any.
So far publication is concerned China is far ahead than India (both number and quality wise). -
Interesting articles:
Ebert, J. (2005). Academies seek better prospects for postdocs. Nature 434, 426.
Dalton, R. (2005). US undervalues foreign researchers, survey reveals. Nature 434, 426.
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