I was recently talking to a senior figure in the Soil Assocation, the UK’s biggest organic accreditation body, while I was researching a book on the logic of green issues.
She said to me that in the UK, organic farming would not be sustainable without livestock. Although there are organic farms that only grow cereals or vegetables, they rely on importing manure from mixed or pure livestock farms.
So, arguably anyone who is a vegetarian, or even more a vegan, for ethical reasons, ought to avoid organic produce, as it is supported by the raising of livestock for dairy and to eat as meat.
It really is fascinating, when you begin to explore green issues, just how often this kind of paradox arises.
I love animals. They taste fantastic.
Quite. I’m eating pig as I write.
I made contact with Lord Melchett couple of years ago and we keep in touch.
Classic shout….
From his speech at last years City Food Lecture
The best comment I saw on that particular storm in a media tea cup, came from the person interviewed by the BBC who said “I take my vegetables seriously, and my politicians with a pinch of salt”.
Anthony Trewavas of the University of Edinburgh has written some excellent articles on this topic, including a Nature Commentary ‘Urban myths of organic faming’, see Nature 410, 409-410;22 March 2001, and a search using ‘Trewavas’ will reveal more. From the Commentary:
Organic agriculture developed from the philosophical views of Rudolf Steiner and later Lady Eve Balfour, who in the 1940s founded the Soil Association. In the United Kingdom this association licenses about 70% of organic production and sends inspectors to check that its regulations are being followed. Although its supporters assert that organic agriculture is superior to other farming methods, the lack of scientific studies means that this claim cannot be substantiated.
Conventional agriculture is a diverse set of technologies using the best available knowledge, whose ultimate goal is the safe, efficient provision of foods in abundance and at lowest price. As with all technologies, problems often arise in the practices of conventional agriculture — but rejection of a technology because of problems also means losing potential benefits.
etc
Another dilemma in organic farming is using ferriphosphate as a slug deterrent (it doesn’t kill the slug, it paralyzes something so the slug cannot eat anymore and eventually starves). It is a component found in normal soils, but the product itself is obviously made chemically. Organic farmers should probably not use it, but because there is no real effective alternative, everybody does (me too).
I can see it now: The Vegetarians vs. The Environmentalists in a steel cage match to the death. Two hippies enter, only one hippie leaves. :)
There is nothing scientific about organic farming. As I understand it, something is organic if and only if the Soil Association says it is. And as for Biodynamic farming, well… it’s entertaining, certainly, but … [note: I spent my formative years at a Steiner school so I know just what endearing tosh anthroposophy really is.]
Hey, Henry, does that mean you can demonstrate eurthmy? Now that’s something I’d pay to see.
How come, if I have vegetarian friends round for dinner, or share a take-away with them, meat is out (or at least not on their plates); but my omnivorousness is never reciprocally catered for when I go to theirs? Would it be (unethically) rude of me to ask them next time to rustle me up a rare steak?
The last post reminds me of a particular BBQ in my “yoof”.
Young, fun, season(ing)s in a bun
Of the 30 or so of us, we had two vegetarians present. They brought along a couple of them disposable
matchboxesBBQ’s and set up their own stall as it were to flame-grill their tofu/quorn shaped items.During “a distraction”, us omnivores drizzled the quorn stuff but some fat from our stuff. Naughty us. You had to be there mind, but, cruel as this was….
—
@ Lee.
Helpful advice if you have vegetarians coming to dinner. Just serve them a nice bit of steak or veal. Since they’re always going on about how tofu and Quorn taste like the real thing, they shouldn’t notice the difference.
-
Eating vegetables is much crueller than eating animals. At least the animals have a chance to run away.
-
Invited by vegetarians for dinner? Tell them about your special dietary requirements and
demandsimply ask for a nice juicy steak.“but some fat from our stuff”
should read “with some fat from our stuff”.
Sorry, it’s oil my fault.
I can, if occasion demands it, knock up a very nice, rich chocolate cake with a secret special ingredient. I brought some into work once, and was doing my darndest to tempt a couple of Saudi Arabian friends, but an alarmed colleague in the know headed them off.
@ Lee,
Quality Street confused here. Obviously, you cannot discuss secret ingredient stuff in the public domain, but can you divulge generally why folks from Saud A can’t have your cake ’n eat it so to trouble and squeak??
Otherwise, I might have to refer to Mrs B
I refer you to an old friend of mine named John (‘When you’ve known him as long as I have.’)
Twix anyone ??
Hey, Henry, does that mean you can demonstrate eurthmy? Now that’s something I’d pay to see.
I don’t know about eurthmy. Eurythmy, though, well I might still be able do the ol’ soft-shoe shuffle.
Damn, I knew I’d spell it wrong.
Damn, I knew I’d spell it wrong.